- I just read an article that advised allowing GM and Chrysler to die, since people obviously aren’t wanting to buy their products. Do you agree?
- I also read a few things that got me thinking about all the hoopla concerning the woman who gave birth to octuplets. It seems that the abortion-supporters are pretty universally against such behavior. What’s interesting is that if they were truly pro-choice, they would be defending this woman’s right to do as she pleased. Right? It’s her body, after all. And before you get stuck on the fact that she’s living on our tax money, consider the fact that many of her detractors are firmly in favor of tax money being used to fund abortions. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather my money would go to support someone’s children than to kill them. What do you think? Should pro-choice mean that a woman can make the choice to have many children?
- And on the same subject, I just read that the reason she had 8 embryos implanted was because they were all left over from her previous in vitros, and she didn’t think it was right to destroy them because they were her children. Is it wrong to destroy an embryo in this case? And if so, what should be done with it?
dayuntoday 
I live in Michigan – so allowing GM/Chrysler ‘to die’ is effectively allowing most of Michiganders to die as well. Our economy is so bad off – the death of the auto industry would be the fatal blow.Nadya Suleman? The whole story has continued to completely fascinate me. You raise a very interesting argument regarding pro-abortion supporters.As far as IVF goes – it truly creates many new contemporary ethical dilemmas. I don’t pretend to have the ‘answers’ to the difficult questions you raise. I have opinions – but would never pretend that they are answers. When we ‘play God’ we create all manner of mess.My overriding concern is for the welfare of these 14 children. The latest news is that the home where Nadya and her 14 children are living is in jeopardy of foreclosure.
Yeah, I’m in MI, too, and things are bad enough already. However, I can see the point of the article. A bailout is very much like allowing your 30 year-old spendthrift jobless child to move back home. How will they ever learn to manage if they don’t deal with their own choices? I struggle with knowing what is best.
1. I don’t believe the problem is that people don’t want to buy the products. I believe the problem is that GM and Chrysler are being mismanaged and set budgets based on selling more than is reasonable to expect even in good economies. I don’t believe the companies would actually fail though, I believe they would file for bankruptcy and be restructured and their contracts nullified and quite possibly end the reliance on union labor.2-3. I don’t believe in in-vitro fertilization. That very much feels like playing God to me and I figure that if God made a person such that they can’t have children on their own then God doesn’t intend for them to pass along their genes.
you wrote: ”I also read a few things that got me thinking about all the hoopla concerning the woman who gave birth to octuplets. It seems that the abortion-supporters are pretty universally against such behavior. What’s interesting is that if they were truly pro-choice, they would be defending this woman’s right to do as she pleased. Right? It’s her body, after all. And before you get stuck on the fact that she’s living on our tax money, consider the fact that many of her detractors are firmly in favor of tax money being used to fund abortions. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather my money would go to support someone’s children than to kill them. What do you think? Should pro-choice mean that a woman can make the choice to have many children?ok… it’s not just her body. it’s her body, and eight other little bodies, that we can all pretty much place decent betting money on seeing again in the future on the news – and not in a good way. is that any way to promote either ?”yes, it’s her choice, but that means she is RESPONSIBLE for the results. bringing children into this world, and damaging them psychologically is every bit as bad – OR WORSE – than an abortion. yes, i said it. and your JC might have agreed with me… something about millstones come to mind ?people that don’t use any self-control or birth control, and then say ‘oh, god wanted me to have this child’ are rediculous. it’s biology, cupcakes. much like if you step off a building, physics are going to be in play. technically, yes, the bible says that ‘god opens and shuts the womb’. it also says that he gives and takes life, and that ‘he will not dash his feet upon the rocks’ but when satan tempted christ to leap, his recompense was silimar to ‘don’t tempt god, you asshole.’if god takes and gives life, should I jump off a building ?? i mean, if i died, it would obviously have been god’s doing…does anybody else see the similarities, and how this thought process of recklessly bringing children into the world, and then blaming god (even via ‘praise’) is absolutely nuts ?? when i was growing up, we had this idea that you dinnet get credit for something until the job was completed. therefore, wait until the kids are grown up – are they healthy and happy ? or did you screw them up ? then decide whether you did the right thing to bring them here. it’s not an automatic assumption. millstones, baby. millstones.
I guess, simply maybe, now that the babies are here ~ they have a right to a good life just like everyone else ~ and somehow, no, it doesn’t seem right to destroy embryos, but then, I guess I don’t really feel it is wise to have those embryos out there in the first place. But if this lady has made mistakes, let’s all get over it already ~ she needs postive help, not condemnation ~ just maybe we need to think about how tragic it would be if she became so discouraged with the treatment she is receiving that she could not deal with it ~ she needs our prayers more than anything ~
No, I don’t believe GM or Chrysler should be left to die. I believe the public should make the choice who to buy from…I believe we need to come back to America although that may seem far fetched at this point. It’s sad. But just ask a vet who fought in Pearl Harbor what their opinion is of non American auto makers. So very sad what has happened…Where was the public?I think the media needs to leave the Octa Mom alone. And people need to leave the Duggar family as well. Whatever happened to people minding their own business. Would people like for the Octo Mom to have aborted her babies instead secretly? It’s a good point your brought up, and she had a very valid reason as your wrote. : )Why don’t prochoice people call themselves prodeath. That is precisely what their fruits are. They are not concerned with genuine choice or they would be concerned with the unborn baby’s choice to live!
1) I don’t think the government should bail out private businesses. I believe that if a business fails, new business will rise up from the ashes. I really do. When the automobile came around, what happened to all those stable owners? All the carriage makers? All the horse breeders, etc. A business fails for a reason. If they want to save their business, they should be willing to make some changes. That is capitalism. Government owning business is communism. I know, I know, people will lose their jobs. People will also start new business. But, maybe, I am just heartless. 2) & 3) In many ways, I think this story is really gossip and hearsay. I don’t think it’s my business. She has the babies. She wants the babies. That is her choice, her right. Are we going to examine the choices of every single mother who receives welfare, or has IVF? It’s not my business, and I get really irritated at the media for trying to make it my business. Why aren’t they telling me more about things that actually matter to me, and less about this woman’s private life? ACK!
@BooksForMe – Boy, I love the way you put things! @thats_italian – “They are not concerned with genuine choice ” Amen! Exactly what I decided.@fwren – I agree that having the embryos out there at all is problematic. I think she should have thought of that issue before allowing in vitro at all, but since she didn’t, I am way more understanding of her later choice.@the_grat – That’s a pretty sobering thought, that if I do a bad job raising one of my kids, I would be better off aborting. I’d have a hard time agreeing with that, simply because I know a few people who were very poorly raised who have done wonderful things with their lives after they got past the trauma of their childhood. Still, it is an interesting thought–there are certainly a lot of damaged people who never do get over it. And btw…he’s not just my JC–he’s the only way those damaged kids you’re talking about can be healed.@mrcolorful – well, ending the reliance on union labor would be a giant step in the right direction. @gokellyjo – Do you really think most Michiganders would die? It would be very hard (and frankly I’m not sure I want to live through it, bad as it is already) but I have a feeling that BFM is right–they would be spurred to start new businesses. MI is already a wasteland of unemployment and welfare–maybe in time we’d actually see it improve? Part of our problem is the dependence on mainly one industry.
@homefire – No – we would not ‘die’ physically of course. But, death takes many forms. Let me state for the record that we are not directly (or indirectly for that matter) tied to the auto industry. We have always been in the construction trades – mostly industrial construction. My husband lost his job about 3 weeks ago – Was his job loss related to the auto industry? I would have to say probably.I too think that in time, new technology will rise up out of this mess. But, in the meantime how many people stand to lose their entire livelihoods, lifetime savings, residences, etc. in the process. Too many IMHO. Our government chose to bail out Freddie and Fannie – private businesses. Why then do people oppose government dollars baling out other private enterprises? If it’s good for the goose –
@BooksForMe – exactly!@homefire – love your point about pro-choice. they don’t really mean pro-choice though, they only mean pro-THEIR choice
@gokellyjo – yep, we have the same problem. My dh is in construction, too, and manages to find a job occasionally, but doesn’t work much, and our income is pretty limited. It hits everyone. But that doesn’t make me think they should be bailed out. I admit, it’s very tempting to think that our economy could get some new life pumped into it, but I’m afraid it’s a mirage. I don’t they should have bailed out Freddie and Fannie either. Why?First of all, because the gov’t doesn’t have the money–all that does is increase inflation, which is almost completely out of control already. I don’t want to live in an economy where it takes a wheelbarrow load of money to buy groceries–and that has happened!Secondly, if a business is in trouble, it is probably because they are not being managed well or their product is not needed. Either way, giving them money won’t fix it. It’s like putting a Band-Aid on a malignant tumor. A bailout is only an artifical boost, a cover-up–it doesn’t fix the problem. It only prolongs the process. Much as I hate the thought, I am concerned that “saving” the auto industry (and other programs of that ilk) may actually bring the whole country to ruin.
I think she is horrifically irresponsible. I’t my choice to think so… Yes, for the babies’ sakes, she should get as much help as she needs to give them some semblance of a nurturing home. I think it will necessarily be institutional in flavor… too bad. As for leaving the embryos, I totally do not think we should be conceiving way more children than we could possibly deliver and raise. There are snowflake adoptions, I know someone who had two children by adopting embryos, but I do not think to fertilize so many extra eggs is a moral choice. It’s playing fast and loose with a human life. It’s my big objection to in vitro; the “leftover” babies. Most people don’t ‘get’ what that means till they hold their born baby for the first time.
@mamaglop – good point. Leftover babies really bother me as well. The adoption of embryos is a great idea.