Okay, here I go again. I’m just posting part of what I’ve written, but this is the most interesting stuff IMO. Once again, prior communications are indented.
but as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for as soon as you eat of it, you shall die.
“As soon as?” Well, in my version (and three others I’ve checked) it says “in the day” you eat of it you will surely die. Yes, that could be taken to mean “that very day, your heart will stop beating.” It seems, though, that if God meant that they would die that very day, that he might have used the emphatic “selfsame day” that is used in Gen. 7:13 and Gen. 17:23, or at least “that day” which is used many times also. I can’t find another spot where that word is used by itself (without this or that attached to it) that it means “immediately.” Since God did not strike them dead immediately, He obviously didn’t mean that particular day. God does not lie. Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
“The day” in that verse could also mean “the time” or “then” as it does in Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days. The same word is also used many times to show the length of a man’s life, as in Gen 9:29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years.
And actually, I do think it means literal physical death. I think it means, “When you eat it, you’re done for. You’re no longer immortal.” Before they ate it, they weren’t going to die. Afterward, they WERE going to die. The literal words on the page are the Truth of the matter. Yes.
(going into conjecture here, and it has nothing to do with interpretation of the Word—just an aside.) My personal opinion is that God allowed the effects of the Tree of Life fruit they had been eating to delay their deaths. That also would give a natural explanation for why people lived so very long those first few generations—a carryover of those effects. Then they gradually wore off (evolved?) and life spans became shorter and then stayed relatively constant since then. There’s nowhere that it says all that in Scripture, as far as I know, but it makes sense to me.
a Truth can be transmitted to us independent of the literal words on the page
Oh, yes, absolutely! This happens often through the Holy Spirit, which indwells every believer!
My response to all your philosophical wanderings (Descartes, etc) is that I trust God infinitely more than I trust my senses. My senses lie. Optical illusions, phantom smells, ringing in my ears, the “pinpricks” that I experience when feeling is returning to frozen fingers—all those things are sensory tricks. There is no outward influence that is causing them. My “initial leap of faith” is to believe in God—not my senses.
The first account says explicitly that plant life had sprouted before mankind was created. The second account says explicitly that plant life had not yet sprouted when mankind was created. There is only one possible conclusion
Well, shoot. Once again, I came up with a different conclusion than you did. My Bible shows Gen 2:5 as a continuation of the sentence begun in the previous verse. Here’s the whole thing.
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. Gen 2:4-5
So I’m not really seeing the conflict. The Lord made the earth, the heavens and the plants and herbs—he made them in their full-grown form before they actually grew there. No , they hadn’t sprouted, but they were there! Their seeds weren’t yet in the earth, but they were on the earth. Fairly straightforward, I think. There is no “when” on the beginning of verse 5. What version of the Scripture are you using?
among that frustrating group of people who are deceived by themselves for no apparent reason despite their minds being agile enough to do some real good in the world if only they were put to use. So we’re even, eh? 8^)
We’re definitely even, LOL! That’s very well put, and expresses exactly what I feel about you!
Evolutionary theory is simply a fruit of the human mind
The church is cleaned, but I have about fifty people coming over tonight to bake unleavened bread, so I really need to get some bathrooms cleaned and floors swept. God bless, all~